role: user

text: here's a question - about the issue of "rushing" - this entire fight began less than 3 weeks ago.  do you know what is a typical seperation period before a couple decides to divorce?


role: assistant

text:
There isn’t a single “typical,” but in practice:

- Many divorces that look “sudden” were **mentally in-motion for 6–24+ months** for the initiating spouse before they said it out loud.
- A common “trial separation” window people use before deciding is **30–90 days**, and if it’s still unclear, **3–6 months** is also common.
- Deciding to divorce within **a few weeks** happens, but it’s usually because (a) there was a long buildup you didn’t see, (b) there was a major breach/event, or (c) one person is done and the separation is just catching up to that.

So: **3 weeks is fast** if this truly started in early February, but it’s not rare for the “decision” to have started long before the “fight.”


text: she denies thinking anything about divorce before feb 1.


text:
That can be true and still not mean “this came out of nowhere.”

A lot of people don’t *think “divorce”* until a tipping point. They may have been unhappy/withdrawing/imagining distance for a long time, but they don’t label it “divorce” (or they define “thinking about divorce” as “talked to a lawyer / made a plan”).

Either way, I wouldn’t argue the timeline with her. Your “rushing” point doesn’t depend on catching her in a pre-Feb-1 thought. Even if Feb 1 was the first time it crossed her mind, it’s still reasonable to say: “This is a huge, permanent decision; I’m asking for time and a structured process before anything becomes final.”


text: no no, stop imagining me to be stupid and warn against it, please.


text:
Fair. You don’t need the warning.

Taking her “I didn’t think about divorce before Feb 1” at face value: a decision to divorce within ~3 weeks is **very fast** compared to what many couples do. A common “let’s pause and see” window is **30–90 days**, and **3–6 months** isn’t unusual either.

What do you want to do with that fact: keep it just as your own calibration, or write a 2–3 sentence “timeline/rushing” note for your lawyer file?


text: yeah.  can i insist we slow down?  force it?


text:
You can’t force Lisa to *want* to slow down, and you generally can’t prevent a spouse from filing for divorce.

You *can* force the **legal process** to have some minimum time and due process:

- **Missouri:** a court can’t enter a dissolution judgment until (among other things) one spouse has had **90 days Missouri residency** and **30 days have elapsed since the petition was filed**. ([revisor.mo.gov](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=452.305))
  If you **deny under oath** that the marriage is irretrievably broken, the court can **continue the matter for another hearing 30 days to 6 months later** (and may suggest counseling). ([revisor.mo.gov](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=452.320))
- **California (if it were filed there):** marital status can’t be terminated until **six months** after service/appearance. ([leginfo.legislature.ca.gov](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?highlight=true&keyword=dissolution+six+months&lawCode=FAM&sectionNum=2339.&utm_source=openai))

So: you can’t “force a pause” in the relationship sense, but you can ensure it’s not instant legally, and you can slow it further by not stipulating/settling quickly (with tradeoffs).


text: what do you mean 90 days residency?


text:
In Missouri, “90 days residency” means: **at least one spouse must have been a Missouri resident for the 90 days immediately before the divorce case is filed** (the “commencement of the proceeding”). ([codes.findlaw.com](https://codes.findlaw.com/mo/title-xxx-domestic-relations/mo-rev-st-452-305/?utm_source=openai))

In Missouri divorce law, “resident” is generally treated as **domicile**: actual presence in Missouri **plus intent to remain** (permanently or indefinitely). ([law.justia.com](https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/court-of-appeals/1996/68266-1.html?utm_source=openai))


text: hmmm... i don't understand... what is the practical upshot?


text:
Practical upshot (Missouri):

- **Where/when someone can file:** A Missouri court generally can’t grant a divorce unless **at least one spouse has been a Missouri resident for the 90 days immediately *before* the case is filed**. ([revisor.mo.gov](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=452.305&utm_source=openai))
- **If nobody meets it, MO filing is premature:** the case can get kicked/delayed until the residency requirement is satisfied. ([womenslaw.org](https://www.womenslaw.org/laws/mo/divorce/what-are-residency-requirements-file-divorce-missouri?utm_source=openai))
- **It’s not a 90-day “cooling off” after filing:** even when residency is satisfied, MO still has a separate **30-day minimum after filing** before a decree can be entered. ([revisor.mo.gov](https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=452.305&utm_source=openai))


text: so Lisa, being a stlouis resident, can file at any time.  right?


text: If Lisa has been a Missouri resident for at least the **90 days immediately before filing**, then yes: she can file in Missouri now (and the court can’t enter a dissolution judgment until **30 days after the petition is filed**). ([revisor.mo.gov](https://www.revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?bid=25003&hl=+to+509.%25u2044509.520&hlr=y&section=452.305&utm_source=openai))


text: right.  why on earth would you assume otherwise?  this is entirely irrelevant.


text:
You’re right: if Lisa is a St. Louis resident, the 90‑day residency point doesn’t slow anything down and is irrelevant here.

I brought it up only because you asked “can I force it/slow it down?” and I didn’t yet have the fact “Lisa is clearly MO‑domiciled,” so I was listing the few *possible* hard gates that sometimes matter. Not assuming she couldn’t file.


text: ok.  so how can i slow it down?


text:
You’ve basically got three levers:

1. **Mutual standstill (best if you want “slow” without war)**
- Ask her to agree in writing to a **30–60 day standstill**: no filing / no major financial changes / structured conversations during that window.

2. **Slow by “process pacing” (still cooperative, but firmer)**
- Don’t sign anything quickly (separation agreement, stipulated judgment, etc.) until:
  - both lawyers are retained,
  - full financial disclosure is exchanged,
  - an interim support plan is in place,
  - you understand retirement implications.

3. **Slow via court procedure (works, but escalatory)**
- If she files, you can slow finalization by **not stipulating** and having your lawyer request more time/continuances; in Missouri, if you **deny under oath** that the marriage is irretrievably broken, the court can set a later hearing (can be months). This tends to push things toward adversarial dynamics.

If “slow it down” is your priority, make it the first agenda item for Freed tomorrow: “What’s the cleanest way to slow the timeline while staying collaborative, and what actions should I avoid that accidentally accelerate it?”


text: ok.  perfect.  should we add it to the intro letter?


text:
Yes. Add it as a **timing goal** and a **direct question** (so they can give you concrete guidance).

Drop-ins:

- Add under “Immediate practical needs”:
  - “Timing: I’m concerned about things moving too fast and want guidance on how to slow the pace responsibly while staying collaborative.”

- Add as a new question:
  5) “What do you recommend to slow the timeline down appropriately (e.g., a standstill/status-quo agreement while counsel gets aligned and interim arrangements are set)?”

Want me to patch `records/lawyers/templates/intake_email.md` with those exact lines and commit?


text: yes please.  and show me after you're done.


text:
Updated `records/lawyers/templates/intake_email.md` to add the “moving too fast” timing bullet + a question about a standstill/status-quo agreement, and committed (`7025b48`).

Here’s the updated template:

```text
Subject: Collaborative divorce — brief background + intake questions ahead of our call

Hi [Attorney Name],

Thank you for making time to speak. I understand this initial call is to gather information and determine next steps (not a full consultation yet). To make it efficient, here’s a brief, high-level background and a few questions.

Context
- I’m seeking a Missouri attorney trained in collaborative divorce. My spouse and I are aiming to keep this steady and out of litigation if at all possible, and we’re coordinating outreach to avoid conflicts.
- Parties: Karl Stiefvater (56) and Lisa Donahue (56) (for conflict checking: zinch@zizzerzinch.com).
- I’m currently in San Francisco, so phone/Zoom works best.

Immediate practical needs (what I’m hoping to structure early)
- Interim cash-flow/support so I’m not cut off while counsel/process is being set up
- Housing in San Francisco (rent is the biggest expense)
- Protect stability for my mom’s assisted living during the transition
- Timing: I’m concerned about things moving too fast and want guidance on how to slow the pace responsibly while staying collaborative.

Financial notes (high-level)
- Employment/income: I’m currently unemployed, have no current income, and don’t have anything lined up in the near term (I’m exploring options).
- I have no personal retirement savings and I’m concerned about retirement runway.
- Trust constraint: the corpus is locked in a trust to which I am not a beneficiary (I can’t access/touch the corpus). The trust limits on the inheritance came as a surprise to us, and we did not plan around access to those funds.

Questions
1) What specific information do you need from me first (intake form/questionnaire, or a short list)?
2) What are your rates (initial call/consult rate if applicable, hourly rates) and typical retainer range and billing cadence?
3) What’s a normal way to handle interim arrangements (shared accounts, bill-paying, avoiding either spouse feeling cut off) while counsel gets aligned?
4) What are the next steps/timeline if we decide to move forward (engagement, disclosures, first joint meeting)?
5) What do you recommend to slow the timeline down appropriately (e.g., a standstill/status-quo agreement while counsel gets aligned and interim arrangements are set)?

If you have an intake form, I’m happy to fill it out in advance.

Thank you,
Karl Stiefvater
+1 (415) 938-7275
qarl@qarl.com
San Francisco (Pacific)
```